5:30 PM


Mayor Les Smith opened the City Council Meeting to adjourn to a Closed Executive Session on December 10, 2007, at 5:30 PM.  Councilman Wayne Beer made a motion to adjourn to Closed Executive Session pursuant to Missouri Open Meeting Act Exemption 610.021 (1) for Litigation and Confidential or Privileged Communications with Legal Counsel, and 610.021 (2) for Real Estate Acquisition Discussion, and 610.21(3) for Personnel Discussion.  Mayor Pro Tem Mark Revenaugh seconded.


Roll Call Vote:  All aye Councilman Wayne Beer, Councilman Carol Rudi, Mayor Pro Tem Mark Revenaugh, Mayor Les Smith. (4-0).


Councilmember Carol Suter was also in attendance at the Closed Executive Session.


Mayor Les Smith recessed the Closed Executive Session to go into an Open Study Session at 6:45 PM.




7:30 PM


PRESENT:          Mayor Les Smith

                             Councilman Wayne Beer

Councilman Carol Rudi

Councilmember Carol Suter


City Manager Kirk Davis

Assistant City Manager Scott Wingerson

City Counselor David Ramsay

City Clerk Cathy Swenson


ABSENT:            Mayor Pro Tem Mark Revenaugh



Mayor Les Smith opened the Regular December 10, 2007, City Council Meeting at 7:30 PM in the Gladstone City Council Chambers.


Item 2. on the Agenda.             ROLL CALL


Mayor Les Smith noted that all Council members were present, except for Mayor Pro Tem Mark Revenaugh.


Item 3. on the Agenda.             PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.


Mayor Les Smith led the Pledge of Allegiance, in which all joined.




Councilman Carol Rudi moved to approve the Regular November 26, 2007, City Council Meeting Minutes as presented.  Councilmember Carol Suter seconded.  The vote:  All aye Councilmember Carol Suter, Councilman Wayne Beer, Councilman Carol Rudi, and Mayor Les Smith.  (4-0)


Item 5. on the Agenda       CONSENT AGENDA


Following the Clerk's reading, Councilman Wayne Beer moved to accept the Consent Agenda as presented.  Councilmember Carol Suter seconded.  The vote:  All aye Councilmember Carol Suter, Councilman Wayne Beer, Councilman Carol Rudi, and Mayor Les Smith.  (4-0)


Councilman Wayne Beer moved to adopt RESOLUTION R-07-92, authorizing execution of a contract with Dennis Johnson Construction, Incorporated, in the total amount not to exceed $102,296.00 for the 2200 Block of Northeast 67th Street Drainage Extension.  Councilmember Carol Suter seconded.  The vote:  All aye Councilmember Carol Suter, Councilman Wayne Beer, Councilman Carol Rudi, and Mayor Les Smith.  (4-0)


Councilman Wayne Beer moved to adopt RESOLUTION R-07-93, authorizing the City Manager of the City of Gladstone to enter into an agreement with the Mid-America Regional Council Solid Waste Management District for a 2008 Grant for the Regional Brush/Yard Waste Facility.  Councilmember Carol Suter seconded.  The vote:  All aye Councilmember Carol Suter, Councilman Wayne Beer, Councilman Carol Rudi, and Mayor Les Smith.  (4-0)


Councilman Wayne Beer moved to adopt RESOLUTION R-07-94, authorizing the City Manager to execute an agreement with Innoprise Software, Inc., for Financial Management Software.  Councilmember Carol Suter seconded.  The vote:  All aye Councilmember Carol Suter, Councilman Wayne Beer, Councilman Carol Rudi, and Mayor Les Smith.



Councilman Wayne Beer moved to adopt RESOLUTION R-07-95, authorizing acceptance of a proposal from Thoroughbred Ford for the purchase of two 4 x 2 Trucks with Utility Bed and Hydraulic Systems for the net purchase amount of $72,626.  Councilmember Carol Suter seconded.  The vote:  All aye Councilmember Carol Suter, Councilman Wayne Beer, Councilman Carol Rudi, and Mayor Les Smith.



Item 6. on the Agenda.             COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE.


There were no communications from the audience.


Item 7. on the Agenda.             COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE CITY COUNCIL.


Councilmember Carol Suter expressed her appreciation and congratulations to the Parks and Recreation staff who conducted the Hard Hat Tours at the Community Center.  Saturday's tour was very successful, even given the bad weather.  It was a fun event and people were wowed by the facility, which is exciting.


Councilman Wayne Beer had no comments at this time.


Councilman Carol Rudi congratulated Councilman Beer on the honor he received at the Gladstone Area Chamber of Commerce banquet for all of the work that he has done to put the Williams House together and serving as their building contractor.


Mayor Les Smith concurred with Councilman Rudi.


Item 8. on the Agenda.             COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE CITY MANAGER.


City Manager Kirk Davis reported both Saturday and Sunday's Hard Hat Tours of the Community Center were successful, and offered congratulations to the Parks and Recreation staff.  The tours were a great idea.  There were close to 700+ people who went through the Community Center in the two days, and there was a lot of wows from folks.  City Manager Davis said there would also be tours this coming Saturday from 10:00 AM to 4:00 PM, and invited all to attend. 


City Manager Davis invited City Council members to a retirement luncheon this Friday for Captain Mike Couch, and also to another retirement luncheon next Tuesday for Human Resources Coordinator Pat Crooks.  Both of these people are long time employees of the City.


City Manager Davis announced that City Hall would be open Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve.  City Manager Davis wished everyone safe and happy holidays.


Item 9. on the Agenda.             RESOLUTION R-07-96, authorizing the City Manager to execute an agreement with the Missouri Department of Transportation (MoDOT) for Red Light Camera installations on Missouri Highway One.


Councilman Carol Rudi moved to adopt RESOLUTION R-07-96, authorizing the City Manager to execute an agreement with the Missouri Department of Transportation (MoDOT) for Red Light Camera installations on Missouri Highway One.  Councilmember Carol Suter seconded.  The vote:  All aye Councilmember Carol Suter, Councilman Wayne Beer, Councilman Carol Rudi, and Mayor Les Smith.



Item 10. on the Agenda.           PUBLIC HEARING: for consideration of a Rezoning and Site Plan Revision at 1900 NE 72nd Street (Family Video Movie Club).  Applicant/Owner:  JA Peterson Enterprises, Inc.  File #1306.


Mayor Smith opened the Public Hearing and said Council would first hear from Assistant City Manager Scott Wingerson, then from representatives of the applicant, and finally anyone from the audience who would like to address the Council.




Assistant City Manager Scott Wingerson began saying there is one Public Hearing on this issue, with three separate actions ordered in a very specific way.  The first action is to create the Final Plat; the second action to consider authorizing a zoning change classification; and finally the Site Plan.  Mr. Wingerson introduced Planning Specialist Chris Helmer, saying Mr. Helmer would give a brief summary of the request, and the applicant would give a detailed presentation to City Council.


Planning Specialist Chris Helmer stated he would begin by discussing the Site Plan for the Family Video, which is a 5,000 square foot building with three separate lease spots at 1,200 square feet each.  Currently the proposed applicant is requesting a drive through on the eastern portion of that site, which would be abutting one of the 1,200 square foot lease spots.  Mr. Helmer said, as Mr. Wingerson mentioned, the actions this evening are consistent with what we did with the Planning Commission.  Mr. Helmer said he would quickly go through the packet material to bring everyone up to speed as far as the revisions that have been done with the applicant.


Mr. Helmer said Staff has met with the applicant on some preliminary stages at the very beginning of discussions on this application.  The packet that Council members have received has two portions.  One attachment is the most recent material and the second packet of material is the traditional summary review that one would see at the Planning Commission and City Council levels.  It includes the Staff Report, aerial photos of the original rezone map, which is also the same rezoning map that is seen in the current material.  There are also some very specific information and letters addressed to Staff regarding addressing some issues in more detail.  Mr. Helmer said the applicant was present this evening with people from Kaw Valley Engineering as well as Lutgen Engineering firms to address the very specific questions that not only Staff had, but the Planning Commission had as well.  There have been some significant revisions to this plan, and the applicant is prepared to address those to the City Council this evening.  Mr. Helmer said although it is not being seen this evening, there was quite a bit of public input at the first Planning Commission Public Hearing, and he has spoken with some area residents here at City Hall.


Mr. Helmer said information included in the packet materials includes the proposed alignments, one fronting 72nd Street and the entrance off North Euclid Street.  From the beginning stages of this application, Staff had some concerns regarding parking as well as landscaping.  The revisions seen on the current Site Plan shows the progression from the first Site Plan.  The current application of the Staff Report states that the minimum requirement from our City Code is 35 parking spaces.  The applicant had originally submitted 77 parking spaces, and that has been narrowed down to 57 spaces, which addresses some issues.  One being the overabundance of parking, and it allowed us to have some more green space fronting 72nd Street, as well as to pull the green space a little bit to the east off Euclid and enhance that area as well as at the corner of 72nd Street and Euclid. 


Mr. Helmer said the storm water management and traffic were also very big issues with this plan.  The traffic study recommended that those alignments that he just mentioned be a shared drive to the north with the KinderCare Learning Center, as well as with the development to the east, which is Mr. Strange's Insurance Agency.  Area residents, Staff, and the Planning Commission had concerns with the storm water management.  City Council members received a couple of proposals as to how that can be maintained.  Staff started from the beginning stages with just the existing storm inlets, then Staff moved to a tiered system that went to the Planning Commission.  Staff had some concerns about the aesthetics of that particular storm water detention.  Staff had always pushed for the underground lateral pipes that are shown underneath the parking, in the latest Site Plan.  Mr. Helmer invited any questions from City Council members, and reminded them that the applicant was also present to answer any questions.




Levi Dinkla, 3029 SW Arbonia Place, Topeka, Kansas, began by saying he represents Family Video, and is the Regional Manager for Kansas, western Missouri and Nebraska.  Mr. Dinkla said he had a couple of points he wished to make this evening.  Mr. Dinkla said to begin, he wished to let City Council members know a little about his company that would like to be a part of this community.  There are over 500 stores in the company, and they are the third largest rental chain in America, and it is the only major video rental chain that owns all its property.  The company's primary focus is on real estate, and video is their means for paying for the real estate.  Mr. Dinkla stated the company is privately held, and is held by a family by the name of the Hooglands.  The question came up as to why this town, and why this site.  Mr. Dinkla said they try to be a neighborhood store; they have prices that are very attractive to families, so they try to build in locations where families would be able to walk up together to their site. 


Mr. Dinkla stated he would like to address the issues that came up both in the preliminary meetings and with the Planning Commission.  Mr. Dinkla said that basically what came out after meeting with the neighbors and City staff were three main issues that needed to be dealt with.  The first of those issues was traffic and safety concerns; the second issue was landscaping; and the third and most important issue was water.  Mr. Dinkla said he would be speaking this evening on the first two issues, and will have his engineer, Mr. Dana Bowles with Kaw Valley Engineering speak about the water.  Mr. Dinkla said the issues that came up with traffic safety from both the neighborhood and City staff were that they felt his company should be sharing access points with the neighbor to the north, which is KinderCare, and the neighbor to the east, which is Mr. Strange. 


Mr. Dinkla said the initial Site Plan had both access points going right onto their property.  Through the process of meeting with the neighborhood and City staff and going through the Planning Commission, they have worked out 100 percent to getting the driveways to be shared between both of the adjacent property owners.  As of this afternoon, a tentative agreement was made with Mr. Strange's attorney to share the access point.  Another traffic issue that came up was the future ability of the City to put in a left hand turn lane.  Mr. Dinkla said he was able to show in his drawings that was possible, but just to make sure that it was possible in the future if needed, he has agreed to give away an additional five foot of right-of-way to the City. 


Mr. Dinkla said the next issue is the landscaping.  Mr. Dinkla reported that he did start out with 77 parking stalls, and he did feel very strongly that he needed all 77 of those stalls.  His business model is one where they are basically from 6:00 until 8:00 or 9:00 PM on Friday and Saturday evening.  Mr. Dinkla said if he had 150 parking stalls, he could fill them; that is where they make 75 percent of their revenue during those time periods during the week, so the more parking, the more he is able to support that property.  Mr. Dinkla continued by saying he understood the City was not as pleased with that amount of parking, and so they came up with an agreement of 57 parking stalls.  They also came to an agreement regarding landscaping and moving the garbage enclosure that was originally on the east side of the property to next to Mr. Strange's building along the west side of the property.  Mr. Dinkla said that Mr. Strange felt very strongly that where the dumpster has now been relocated would have an adverse impact on the value of his property, because it would be right next to his building and would be unseemly for him and his customers.  Mr. Dinkla said he agreed, and in trying to appease everyone, he would like to suggest and request from Council to move that enclosure so that it is actually attached to his building.  By doing that, it would still be screened from 72nd Street, and it would be matching the building material of the building, and would not pose such a visual impairment to Mr. Strange's property. 


Mr. Dinkla said the second thing he would like to note is that in reducing the size of the parking lot, going from 77 to 57 stalls, did a couple of things that helped out with the water.  It definitely increased the green area, especially along 72nd Street; however, one of the other things negotiated was getting the underground detention, which ended up being a lot more expensive than he could ever have imagined.  Mr. Dinkla asked Council if they would be agreeable to giving back a couple of those spaces without impairing the green zone that has been created along 72nd Street.  Mr. Dinkla said they would like the capability to not reconstruct the site plan, but they may need a couple more spaces to pay for the building.  They have to be sure that financially this is do-able.  The main concern with the community and Staff was the water detention, so his priority was to be sure they got the best water detention possible.  In doing that they are asking for some give and take, and are asking for a couple of those parking stalls back from 57 to as many as 64, which is nowhere near the 77, which they feel is a good in between number.


Mr. Dinkla asked Council members to look at the middle exhibit on a rendering and pointed out a sand colored portion of the above ground detention, which will now be a landscaped area.  Mr. Dinkla stated this plan will allow for a great visual impact at that corner.  The monument sign has also been moved from the corner, because there were some concerns from the community about people not being able to see when they are taking a left or right turn. 


Mayor Smith asked Mr. Dinkla where he would like to build back in the seven parking spaces.


Mr. Dinkla replied if the dumpster is attached to the northwest corner of his building, he will lose a couple of spaces along the northwest corner; however, he would also gain a couple of spaces where the garbage enclosure is, so there would be a net of one stall in that act, and he would like to take one or two back from the Euclid side.  Mr. Dinkla said they have been very comfortable working with City staff, and so they would trust that City staff would guide them in the right direction to get them closer to a number that they can make work for the property.


Mayor Smith requested clarification as to the northwest corner location for the dumpster.


Mr. Dinkla pointed out on a rendering where the dumpster would be located, attached to the building, and stated it would be made of the same block as the building.  From 72nd Street, this location will not be such a break in the visual appearance.  The way it is now, it is a separate entity from the building and doesn't flow well with the property, and it disturbs Mr. Strange.  Mr. Dinkla said by having it attached to his building, it would appear to be just another part of the building.


Mayor Smith asked how it would be accessed.


Mr. Dinkla said he feels there would be adequate room for a garbage truck to get in there.  Typically they do not have very large garbage enclosure bins.  The dumpster would open to the west.


Mayor Smith asked if the dumpster could be oriented so it could be accessed from the north.  There may need to be something done with the drive a bit.  Mayor Smith said his point is, yes, the majority of the traffic is on 72nd Street, but the majority of the residents are along Euclid.  Rather than have the open side facing west, it could be open to the north, and as that is an access drive, it might also create a bit easier configuration for the drivers of the garbage trucks, and maybe block the drive a little less.


Mr. Dinkla said he sees no significant issue with that and would have no problem facing the dumpster to the north.  He could just put a pole there to make sure people didn't turn into it, which isn't an issue.


Councilmember Carol Suter said she would like to go back to the comment of Mr. Dinkla's that if he had 150 parking spots, he could fill them on a Friday evening.  If there are only 64 or 57 parking spots, what happens to the other 40 or 50 parking spots that he could fill where are those people?


Mr. Dinkla said those people are either driving to his competition or they are waiting to get a stall, which is why he is always trying to get as much parking as possible.


Councilman Wayne Beer asked Mr. Dinkla if he is no longer giving consideration to the underground collection?


Mr. Dinkla said the underground collection is what they have decided upon; the above ground detention is what they were originally going to do.  Staff made comments that they were not comfortable with that, and there were comments from the community that they were visually concerned about it, so they agreed to go underground, which is where the extra cost is.


Councilman Beer said he thought Mr. Dinkla said the cost was prohibitive.


Mr. Dinkla replied the cost is high but not prohibitive, which is why he is asking for more parking spots.


Councilman Carol Rudi stated at the Planning Commission there was a question about the width of the drive-thru all around the building, and inquired into the width.


Mr. Dinkla replied the driveway width is 12 feet; there was some concern as to whether it narrowed, and it does not narrow in the northwest corner, and is consistent all the way around the building.


Councilman Rudi inquired into the hours of operation.


Mr. Dinkla replied that 10:00 AM to Midnight are his company's standard operating hours.  That is adjusted community by community.  If people in this community are done renting at 10:00 PM, then the business will be closed at 10:00 PM.


Councilman Rudi asked if that would apply to the other businesses.


Mr. Dinkla replied, no, that would not apply to the other businesses, because he would not operate those businesses.


Councilman Rudi said Mr. Dinkla said at the Planning Commission meeting that the signage would all be uniform; however, if he had a particular tenant with a particular logo, that would be on their sign, if that is what they wanted.  Councilman Rudi said she does not have a problem with that, but asked if there will be any digital reader boards.


Mr. Dinkla replied no, and it is his understanding from Staff that by the time he came before Council, they would be outlawed, so they received a forewarning from City staff.  Digital signs are not something they typically do, but he can't speak for a tenant like Edward Jones who might have a ticker symbol running in their window, but as far as he is concerned, his company does not use digital signs that change a message.


Councilmember Suter said the plat shows three additional spaces, and asked if Mr. Dinkla is building them out to order or is the space also available as one?


Mr. Dinkla replied right now the plan is to build those out to vanilla box (incomplete construction).  Mr. Dinkla said his company is also in the commercial leasing business, so they have national tenants, and they have found that this size of space is pretty easy to fill.  If someone came along and wanted it all, they would gladly do that, but they would have to let them know before they started building.


Councilman Beer stated in regard to shared drives, and especially to the drive shared with Mr. Strange, there was an issue in the Planning Commission in regards to alignment of that shared drive with North Euclid Court across the street from 72nd Street.  Councilman Beer asked Mr. Dinkla to address that issue.


Mr. Dinkla replied that the tentative agreement his business has reached with Mr. Strange and his attorney would place this access point across from that corner, which he believes meets with what City staff had recommended.


Councilman Beer asked if that will mean some significant changing of the existing drive?


Mr. Dinkla replied, yes, he believes what would happen is they would be closing the existing drive and opening a new one across the street.  Mr. Dinkla said he could not completely speak for Mr. Strange, but that is how their conversation went, and that has always been an understanding that his would be closed and they would have one shared access point.


Mayor Smith said, from his standpoint, that drive needs to align with Euclid Court.  It doesn't seem practical to do it any other way.


Councilman Rudi stated regarding the driveway entrance, the Planning Commission asked that the curbs in and out be softened a little bit, and asked if Mr. Dinkla had worked with Staff to address that.


Mr. Dinkla said he did not have time in the last week to get it all revised on the drawings, but not only are they open to that, he agrees that it will fit better with the flow of the traffic, so Council will see that softened.


Councilman Rudi asked if there would be in and out arrows on the drive.


Mr. Dinkla replied he believes they will need one or two more feet of driveway width in order to accommodate those arrows, but if Council is agreeable to that, he is agreeable, and Mr. Strange would also have to be agreeable.


Councilman Beer said the Council can see a benefit with that.  Councilman Beer said he believes that we should provide all the ingress/egress safety and signaling and signage that can reasonably be put in there.  Turning onto 72nd Street, eastbound, can be a real challenge.  He would not want to force the issue of putting everyone on Euclid to go eastbound onto 72nd Street, because he does not believe that is an appropriate traffic movement.  Anything we can do to provide a safer access onto 72nd Street, we need to do.


Mr. Dinkla said if he can get the one or two feet to have the appropriate width of the turn lanes, then he definitely will do that.  Mr. Strange would have to agree as well, but one of the concerns is that there is a telephone pole by his current entrance and that makes turning out of his business very hard.  One of the benefits of having this drive where it is proposed to be located is that it will reduce the problem of the telephone pole impeding drivers' vision line, so doing the turning lanes would not be a problem.


Councilman Rudi asked if there would be a dimmer switch on the tower with the light.


Mr. Dinkla replied it turns off, and does not really project.  The light meets all the photometric codes of any city they have been in.  It doesn't project a whole lot of light.  It illuminates it from within, so it's turned off when the business is closed at Midnight, but it is not something that would emit a whole lot, because of the density of the block.  It doesn't let off that much light.


Councilman Rudi stated she knows if she were in one of the two houses right across the street or one of the townhomes on Euclid, and the light is on at Midnight, and she was trying to go to sleep on the weekend, she would not be happy to look at that all the time.  This is why she is thinking at 10:00 PM, it could be turned down and at Midnight, it would be turned off, which might be beneficial.  Councilman Rudi said she does not know if this is possible.


Mr. Dinkla said in the 21 stores he has in this area, he had not heard a single complaint from neighbors, and they are frequently across from houses.  Mr. Dinkla said he does not know if he has that capacity, but he knows he does not have it currently in any of his other stores, so he would not want to say he would do something that he cannot do.


Councilman Rudi said she would like for Staff to discuss this with Mr. Dinkla.


Dana Bowles, Kaw Valley Engineering, began by saying he was prepared to discuss storm drainage issues on this site.  Mr. Bowles said when they looked at this site, they were evaluating the storm drainage from two perspectives.  One was a one inch rain which would fall over the entire site, with the idea to maintain that on site and let it discharge either through percolations or in an under drain system or something, but for a one inch rain, that would be retained.  The other method they used was to evaluate it based on a two, a ten, and a hundred year storm, and then size the detention for a hundred year storm.  The volume that was calculated that was required to hold a hundred year storm was about 9,000 cubic feet. 


Mr. Bowles stated he provided a packet to Council, which is a product called StormTech.  For an underground detention system there are generally two methods.  You can use a circular pipe to get the volume or you can use the StormTech, which is basically a half of a pipe, which is HDPE (High-Density Polyethylene), constructed in conjunction with a gravel bed, which can be buried from six to eighteen inches.  The thicker you go with that gravel bed, the more volume that can be achieved through it.  The advantage of going with the StormTech system that they are proposing is that it not only serves to hold the additional water in storage in the gravel bed, but also allows that water to perk into the ground and take water out of the storm drainage that would normally come off of the site, and also serves as a way of water treatment. 


Mr. Bowles said a normal storm sewer system that is just an enclosed pipe system is going to take all the water and everything else coming into that system and wash it down the stream.  This does allow some VMPS (Soil Vapor Monitoring Points) to be incorporated right into the design, so you do get better water quality, and a reduction in your storm water release from the site.  There is the ability to size this system to whatever we need to, which in this case is about 9,000 cubic feet.  Mr. Bowles said he believes this addresses the concerns with the above ground system, which may have more maintenance issues.  This can go underground, under the parking lot.  Mr. Bowles pointed out on a drawing the rectangular area where the underground system is proposed.  There will be about two feet of cover over it, so it's now a green space that can be landscaped.


Mayor Smith asked for confirmation of the drive width of the drive thru.


Mr. Bowles replied he believed the width is 12 feet, but he does not recall specifically.


Assistant City Manager Wingerson stated it is intended to be 12 feet, and that can be confirmed.  There are painting and striping and scale issues, but the drive needs to be 12 feet, and if Council approves the permit, it will be 12 feet.


Councilman Beer said that is how he reads it on the plans.  Councilman Beer pointed out an illustration and said it indicates two areas for the underground collection system.  It appears it is possible to park vehicles over that system.


Mr. Bowles stated that was correct.


Councilman Beer asked, in regard to the 9,000 cubic feet volume, if that is 9,000 cubic feet of actual volume that is there, or is that 9,000 cubic feet over a time period?


Mr. Bowles replied that would be 9,000 cubic feet over a time period.  Generally there would be water coming in and going out at the same time, and so the 9,000 would be at a minimum what it would be designed for, which would be the required volume for a one hundred year storm, with a release rate that doesn't exceed what is currently coming off that site. 


Councilman Beer said in some of Gladstone's earlier history there was probably not as much attention given to storm water management as we find it to be necessary now; both from just a general knowledge standpoint to the increase in sophistication of engineering that we know today.  Gladstone has suffered quite a bit from some of those early engineering deficiencies.  Councilman Beer said he calls that deficiencies based on what we know today.  It might not have been deficient engineering at that time.  Gladstone has had to spend millions of dollars to try to remedy some of those situations.  Councilman Beer said from a Planning and Council standpoint, we have become a bit sensitive to storm water management, so the storm water management is going to be of utmost concern, at least to this one Councilman.  Councilman Beer said he would like for Mr. Bowles to take a hard look at looking further down the line and take into consideration some of this engineering which still may be evolving. 


Councilman Beer said his point is that if we know that our detention capacity is 9,000 cubic feet, and given the storm water issues that particularly occur downstream from this site, he would like to see us take some special measures to reduce as much as possible the rate of discharge even more greater than engineering suggests to us now.  Councilman Beer said he believes we need to increase the volume of detention for this underground system so that when we get to the heavy run-off situations, we don't sheet water into that creek as quickly as this system would let us now.


Mr. Bowles replied he believes the system does address Councilman Beer's concerns, and he will certainly look into that as he gets into professional plans about what that volume is going to be.  Previously the water would sheet flow straight to either Euclid or 72nd Street, and there would be waves of water going onto those sites.  What a detention basin will do is offset peak run-offs.  If the water coming off that site was coincidental with water coming down Euclid or down 72nd Street, and that runoff combines, that tends to inundate a system. 


Mr. Bowles stated what the modeling programs available allow us to do is to look at volumes, look at pipe dialers on the discharge, length of the traveled path or even routing the water slightly differently through the system to avoid the coincidental run-off peaks from 72nd Street or Euclid, and reduce it that way as well.  Mr. Bowles said as this site is 1.35 acres, the run-off is generally pretty quick.  With the detention basin, that same amount of water will be released over generally a 24-hour period.  This will help downstream.  This system will always maintain that one-inch runoff in the lower portion of the system.


Councilman Beer said he believes that capturing the first inch of rain is pretty innovative and commendable, and he does not recall any systems that have come before Council that dealt with that first inch of rain.  Councilman Beer said he does still feel we need a greater detention capacity to prevent the sheeting that may occur on the heavy rainfalls.


Mr. Bowles said he would certainly look into that.  Mr. Bowles stated that a one-inch rain that comes quickly can easily cause problems downstream, and that can be totally alleviated with this design. 


Councilman Beer said he does feel we need to go a little bit further and look at a greater detention capacity so that if we do have a big rain, that we are not sheeting a bunch of water.  There will be sheeting of water coming off, because it is not a completely pervious surface, but there will be a whole lot more sheeting off of the parking lot without these detention capacities that are being discussed.  It will sheet off a lot faster than is currently coming off of there.  Councilman Beer said he likes the idea of catching the first inch of rain, so that rain from this area does not affect the folks downstream, but he does feel we need to take a little bit of extra care and catch a little bit more of greater rainfalls and release it at a reasonable discharge rate.


Mr. Bowles said he would look into that.


Mayor Smith asked Councilman Beer how he would like to incorporate that into any actions being considered this evening.


Councilman Beer suggested a way might be just a larger area of excavation.  Since it is possible to park over this system, perhaps a larger field or fields, or perhaps a greater depth of excavation, where there is a greater capacity of holding the water.


Councilman Rudi said she had the same concern that the amount of water that is held and released becomes less than the current situation not just equal, but less.  Councilman Rudi said she knows it was said the 9,000 cubic feet of water would be released over a period of time, but Mr. Bowles also said the 9,000 cubic feet would be the minimum amount we need to release for the area to have the same rate coming off.


Mr. Bowles said for a one hundred year storm event we are going from 2.61 cubic feet predevelopment to 2.51 cubic feet per second for post development.  The actual volume of storage that is required is 8,718 cubic feet.  With 9,000 cubic feet, we are over what the analysis says we need to be.


Councilman Rudi asked which size of stone basin will be used as shown in the brochure provided by Mr. Bowles.


Mr. Bowles replied it would be the 18-inch size, which is the one that provides the largest volume of storage.


Councilman Rudi said she is looking for a larger amount of retention and a figure to give Staff to work with, but is uncertain how to best verbalize that.


Assistant City Manager Wingerson suggested a possible way to address this is with percentages, and enlarging the detention capacity by a percent, which may help arrive at a number.  Seven to ten percent is a range that would make a significant improvement to the system.


Councilman Rudi said she would like to see the capacity enlarged by the higher amount of ten percent.


Councilman Beer agreed with Councilman Rudi and said his concern is when you have gone beyond the capacity of the system because of the sheer volume of rain coming down from the skies so that water is sheeting into the creek, that is unabated.  Councilman Beer said he wants to capture more of that water before it sheets off, and he knows the water is going to go downstream, and he wants it to take longer to get there, so there is less effect on folks downstream.


Mr. Bowles said this can be addressed in the final design.  If Council members would like for him to look at ten percent more volume, he would be happy to see what that will drop the release rate to.


Councilmember Suter asked how many more parking spaces does Mr. Dinkla need in order to bear the additional expense for this?


Mayor Smith stated there is a limit to what this property owner is responsible.  If Mr. Dinkla is willing to work with the City and try to increase the capacity to some degree, then Mr. Wingerson and he can visit and do the best they can within the limits of what the developer is supposed to do.


Mr. Dinkla stated he is not excited about doing more, because this is already an awfully lot more than what they had originally planned.  Having said that, going into this project three weeks in, he knew water was going to be the biggest issue.  Mr. Dinkla said if the City could work with him on the parking, then he could work more on the detention, and find a balance there, because every time we make this bigger, it substantially increases his costs.  Mr. Dinkla said he was confident he could work this out with City staff.


Councilmember Suter asked City staff if there was discussion of the capacity of the detention system at the Planning Commission meetings.


Mr. Wingerson replied there was general discussion that bigger was better, but nothing specific.




Mike Keleher, of Keleher and Eastman, 403 NW Englewood Road, stated he represents Larry and Lenora Strange.  Larry conducts his State Farm insurance company directly east of the applicant's site.  Mr. and Mrs. Strange strongly support the relocation of the existing driveway to a location directly aligned with Euclid Court.  Mr. Keleher said they had some significant concerns about the details and costs of that relocation, but based on discussions he had with Mr. Dinkla this afternoon, he believes an accommodation can be reached in that regard, and they, therefore, support the application.  They also strongly urge the Council and Staff to grant the applicant's request to relocate the dumpster.  The potential odors and other activities surrounding that location of the dumpster directly adjacent to his client's building would have an adverse effect on the use of the property.




John Woody, 7201 North Woodland, said he is not speaking in opposition to the application, but more speaking as a friend of the Council.  The City of Gladstone and its Council has been very protective of the residential nature of 72nd Street.  They have denied applications for that particular intersection for a filling station, a car wash, and a number of garden apartments.  Mr. Woody said he would even cite the name of former Councilman Lee Bussinger as being very supportive of the 72nd Street neighborhood.  Mr. Woody said this reminds him of Alice in Wonderland and the Mad Hatter Tea Party.  Alice came upon the Mad Hatter sitting at a tea party, where there is a table set out with 20 settings of cups and saucers.  The Mad Hatter and Alice have their tea at the first place setting, and the Mad Hatter says time to move.  They get up and move down.  Mr. Woody said this is reminiscent of what we do in today's society in that we dirty one area, abandon buildings, and move on and find some other green space to tear up the grass and build.


Mr. Woody said he visited the Family Video store in Lee's Summit, and found it to be well run, well-organized, neat, and good prices for a family.  The only objection he had was that they had a Coke machine outside, which he did not think was conducive for a neighborhood, and Mr. Dinkla said that would not be included at this site.  Mr. Woody said it is rumored that there is going to be 100 units of housing placed around the Family Video store, and his observation of the store in Lee's Summit was that it had a similar 100 units of duplexes and fourplexes around that store. 


Mr. Woody said those units are an eyesore.  The paint has faded on them; the sides are wavey, and they are not maintained.  There is always the usual gas grill sitting in the front yards.  Mr. Woody said the applicant has been very vigorous in cooperating with the City of Gladstone, and have been responsive to the requests from the City.  Mr. Woody said he is impressed with their solutions for the water retention, because they went the more expensive way.  The only thing he would point out is that the water that comes off of that site either goes into the street, if it overflows, or it goes into a pipe.  Where does that pipe go?  The pipe goes down 72nd, parallel, right next to 72nd Street.  Mr. Woody said it empties into the ravine just beyond North Woodland, and goes right beside his property, and it also meets a ditch that is coming from this direction that is carrying the water off from everything else in that neighborhood.  If it overflows, then you are compounding the problem.  Mr. Woody said when it overflows, it will overflow into my property and the properties next to it, because we are downstream.


Mr. Woody said his concern is a row of yews in the back of his property.  Mr. Woody provided a picture to City Council members showing the back of his property, and said it has taken 20 years to get the yews to grow.  At some point the City will be addressing the ditch behind those yews, and it is his concern that these yews be maintained.  It would take a bulldozer five minutes to take the trees down.  It may take a little extra engineering and effort to preserve those yews, but they are on his property and he asks that the City be sensitive to this and work to preserve the trees.


Mayor Smith said Mr. Woody has been a fine protector of the neighborhood for a very long time, and the neighbors have a lot of respect for him.


Mayor Smith asked, to clarify what Mr. Woody was saying, where does this eventually daylight or dump into?


Mr. Bowles replied the enclosed system goes down the north side of 72nd Street and daylights into an open ditch.


Mayor Smith said what Mr. Woody is suggesting is that when it does daylight and dumps into the ditch, it does so perpendicular to the ditch, and asked how we mitigate the erosion concern.


Mr. Bowles replied grouted riprap can be installed opposite the flared-in section where it is discharging, or a structure can be installed so the discharge is parallel to the stream.


Mr. Wingerson stated there are erosion concerns in the channel behind Mr. Woody's house from storm water from the north traveling to the south towards 72nd Street.  This issue is Priority Number 35 in the Storm Water Master Plan.


Mayor Smith said there is a lot of work to do downstream before we do this project, which is an extremely expensive project.  Mayor Smith asked if we have an issue with storm water eroding the western side of the bank, and if we do, how do we mitigate that?


Mr. Wingerson replied there is an erosion concern there, and this particular project attempts to reduce the rate of flow, which should reduce the velocity and make the problem less severe than it is today.


Mr. Bowles stated that Mr. Woody brought up a good point that the flows come in from two directions and combine at his property.  Mr. Bowles said his intent is to reduce the run-off from the site.  The run-off will be reduced from what is currently coming off of the site, and it will also be reduced downstream.  This design will address all the issues very well.


Mr. Wingerson reported that Staff has drafted additional conditions for the Bill for Council's consideration.


Regarding hours of operation, Mayor Smith suggested midnight seems to be late for that neighborhood and asked if the hours of operation would apply to all businesses in the project.


Mr. Wingerson replied the hours of operation would apply to all businesses in the project.


Mayor Smith asked City Council members for their input, but his suggestion would be to limit the hours of operation to 11:00 PM.


Councilman Beer asked the applicant how much business occurs between 11:00 PM and Midnight.


Mr. Dinkla replied he could not guarantee it, but would say that he feels the owner would not do the project with that time frame.  Mr. Dinkla said they find out after six months how important the ending time is.  In the stores where there is industry or second shifts, they get very busy between 11:00 PM and Midnight.


Mayor Smith said he believed that Mr. Dinkla said earlier that different communities have different standards and they have been able to adapt to those.


Mr. Dinkla said standards as far as customer demand, not as far as communities telling them when to be open.  Mr. Dinkla said he looks at the businesses every four to six months and looks at how much money is spent in the store every hour of the day.  Once it is no longer profitable to be open from 11:00 PM to Midnight, they go to 11:00 PM or 10:00 PM.  Very few stores do not do well between 11:00 PM and Midnight.


Councilman Beer said he felt the trash pick-up service hours at this site should be the same as residential hours, which is 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM.  Council members agreed.


Council members confirmed they agreed on the same times, 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM, for deliveries in this area.


Mayor Smith asked if Council members agreed to the condition that the dumpster would be moved to the northwest corner of the Family Video building, orienting the open side to the north, and any manner that they need to reconfigure that corner in the drive.


Councilman Beer said from a Site Planning issue, it seems to be a do-able thing, and from an aesthetics standpoint, it is very practical.


Councilmember Suter said she agrees the relocation is good, but which side it opens on may still need an engineering look, in case orienting the opening to the north interferes with the drive shared with KinderCare. 


Councilman Beer stated the property owners can restrict their trash pick-up even further than the City, and most of their business will take place in the hours after 5:00 PM, so sometime in the hours before that, it shouldn't be a big issue in cutting off the driveway in the two minutes it takes to pick-up the trash.


Mayor Smith invited Mr. Wingerson to weigh in on the parking spaces issue.


Mr. Wingerson stated Council may want to balance storm water management and parking.  Mr. Wingerson said he believes 20 more parking spaces is a healthy number.


Councilmember Suter said she would much rather see the parking spaces than people driving through a parking lot looking for spaces on Friday and Saturday nights.


Councilman Rudi said she would rather see people waiting for the spaces than extra spaces that sit for most of the day and evening.  We are only talking about three hours, two nights per week, where it becomes so critical to have those extra spaces.


Councilman Beer said he believes by giving them the extra spaces and requiring additional storm water management mitigates the problem of run-off with extra spaces, and he has no problem in giving them the extra spaces that they need.


Councilmember Suter agreed and said if it is part of the formula for success, she wants to see a successful business go in here, not something that is handicapped.


Mayor Smith said we also have the opportunity to pick up some spaces in the relocation of the dumpster.  Mayor Smith said the City has made, and will continue to make, a very concerted effort with the adoption of some of our sustainability design standards to require a lot of green, and very aesthetically pleasing designs, and very aesthetically pleasing colors and a lot of green space and landscaping.  Mayor Smith said he would not want to give up any green space.  This is an area where there is development going on this vacant ground, and we need to set the design standard for what is going to happen in the remaining acreage.  Mayor Smith encouraged Staff to look at this and try to work with the applicant, but not give away any of the green space and landscaping.


Councilman Beer said his comments about giving them the spaces they need was predicated upon the proposal that they brought before us, and he did not see a lot of green space disappear with it, but rather just a changing of the configuration. 


Mayor Smith said he believes that Council is recommending that the applicant work with Staff and this will be part of the final building permit approval.  Council is not closed minded to this but is not willing to give a blank check.


Councilman Rudi said the question about permeable surfaces was brought up at the Planning Commission.  Councilman Rudi stated the Planning Commission was told that this is a new kind of surface that people are waiting to see if it really works.  Councilman Rudi said she wanted to ask the question because it goes to the sustainability issue that Council is trying to move forward with in Gladstone.  Councilman Rudi said this is an option that is out there, and she is looking for all options.


Mr. Dinkla said his company did look at this, but the cost is quite a bit higher than traditional methods.  His company is an owner/operator business and not a giant developer, and if they make a bad financial decision, they have to live with it.  Mr. Dinkla said they want to see this proven before they invest that much money into something, which is their major concern with this.  They would rather put their money into something that is proven, which is why they are proposing a top line detention system.


Councilman Beer said he believes there is one permeable asphalt surface project in Kansas City.  Councilman Beer stated this is such a new technology that if he were in the business of trying to make this thing go, it would have to be a much more proven process than seems to be there yet.  While the process shows promise, it is an awfully expensive process that lasts perhaps only five years instead of 15 or 30 years.


Mayor Smith closed the Public Hearing.


Item 11. on the Agenda.           FIRST READING BILL 07-38, approving the Final Plat of a portion of Tract CD, Block 21 Stratford 4th Replat and a portion of Tract A and a portion of vacated Euclid Street, Stratford 4th Plat, a subdivision in the County of Clay, City of Gladstone, Missouri, and directing the appropriate officials to affix their signatures to said Plat for recording. Applicant/Owner: JA Peterson Enterprises, Inc.  File #1308


Councilman Wayne Beer moved to place Bill 07-38 on First Reading.  Councilmember Carol Suter seconded.  The vote:  All aye Councilmember Carol Suter, Councilman Wayne Beer, Councilman Carol Rudi, and Mayor Les Smith.  (4-0).  The Clerk read the Bill.


Councilman Wayne Beer moved to accept the First Reading of Bill 07-38, Waive the Rule and place the Bill on Second and Final Reading.  Councilmember Carol Suter seconded.  The vote:  All aye Councilmember Carol Suter, Councilman Wayne Beer, Councilman Carol Rudi, and Mayor Les Smith.  (4-0).  The Clerk read the Bill.


Councilman Wayne Beer moved to accept the Second and Final Reading of Bill 07-38 and enact the Bill as Ordinance 4.056.  Councilmember Carol Suter seconded. 


Roll Call Vote:  All aye Councilmember Carol Suter, Councilman Wayne Beer, Councilman Carol Rudi, and Mayor Les Smith.  (4-0).


Item 12. on the Agenda.           FIRST READING BILL 07-39, amending Ordinance No. 3.973 and being an Ordinance relating to Zoning Ordinance Regulations and the establishments of Use Districts within the City of Gladstone, Missouri.  Applicant/Owner: JA Peterson Enterprises, Inc.  File #1306


Councilman Wayne Beer moved to place Bill 07-39 on First Reading.  Councilmember Carol Suter seconded.  The vote:  All aye Councilmember Carol Suter, Councilman Wayne Beer, Councilman Carol Rudi, and Mayor Les Smith.  (4-0).  The Clerk read the Bill.


Councilman Wayne Beer moved to accept the First Reading of Bill 07-39, Waive the Rule and place the Bill on Second and Final Reading.  Councilmember Carol Suter seconded.  The vote:  All aye Councilmember Carol Suter, Councilman Wayne Beer, Councilman Carol Rudi, and Mayor Les Smith.  (4-0).  The Clerk read the Bill.


Councilman Wayne Beer moved to accept the Second and Final Reading of Bill 07-39 and enact the Bill as Ordinance 4.057.  Councilmember Carol Suter seconded. 


Roll Call Vote:  All aye Councilmember Carol Suter, Councilman Wayne Beer, Councilman Carol Rudi, and Mayor Les Smith.  (4-0).


Item 13. on the Agenda.           FIRST READING BILL 07-40, approving a Site Plan revision for property legally described as Family Video Addition Lot 1.  Applicant/Owner: JA Peterson Enterprises, Inc.  File #1307


Councilman Beer asked Mr. Wingerson to recite the additional conditions he had noted for this bill.


Mr. Wingerson read the additional and amended conditions as follows:


Amended Conditions:

Condition #2 The trash services shall be scheduled from 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM.

Condition #3 Deliveries shall be made between 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM.


Adding Conditions:

Condition #10 - The dumpster may be relocated to an alternate acceptable location. Final location will be deferred to building permit approval.

Condition #11 - A minimal number of parking stalls may be added with preservation of open space. Final approval is subject to building permit approval.

Condition #12 - Center hours of operation shall be 6:00 AM- to Midnight.

Condition #13 - Digital signage shall be prohibited. 

Condition #14 - Detention capacity shall be increased by 10%.

Condition #15 - Exterior vending or storage shall be prohibited.

Condition #16 - 72nd Street driveway shall align with North Euclid Court.


Council members discussed Condition #12 and as to whether the hours of operation should begin at 6:00 AM or 7:00 AM. 

Mr. Wingerson stated that there was testimony at the Planning Commission Public Hearing concerning a potential coffee shop as one of the tenants.


Councilman Wayne Beer moved to place Bill 07-40 on First Reading and read the amended and added conditions.  Councilmember Carol Suter seconded.  The vote:  All aye Councilmember Carol Suter, Councilman Wayne Beer, Councilman Carol Rudi, and Mayor Les Smith.  (4-0).  The Clerk read the Bill.


Councilman Wayne Beer moved to accept the First Reading of Bill 07-40, Waive the Rule and place the Bill on Second and Final Reading.  Councilmember Carol Suter seconded.  The vote:  All aye Councilmember Carol Suter, Councilman Wayne Beer, Councilman Carol Rudi, and Mayor Les Smith.  (4-0).  The Clerk read the Bill.


Councilman Wayne Beer moved to accept the Second and Final Reading of Bill 07-40 and enact the Bill as Ordinance 4.058.  Councilmember Carol Suter seconded. 


Roll Call Vote:  All aye Councilmember Carol Suter, Councilman Wayne Beer, Councilman Carol Rudi, and Mayor Les Smith.  (4-0).


Item 14. on the Agenda.           PUBLIC HEARING: for consideration of the amendment of Section 7.135.010, and 7.140.010 of the Gladstone City Code relating to C-1 and C-2 Zoning Districts within the City of Gladstone.  File #1309.


Mayor Smith opened the Public Hearing, and said the procedure would be the same as in the previous Public Hearing.


Assistant City Manager Scott Wingerson began by saying this is an application brought forward by the City.  What is being proposed is an amendment to the text Zoning Ordinance to move the allowable location for the sale at retail of auto parts.  This is fundamentally what this is about.  Currently, that use is allowed in the C-2 zoning classification.  The proposal is to shift that down to the C-1, neighborhood zoning classification.  There are two main reasons for this.  The first reason is that our Zoning Ordinance was written in the 1950s and 1960s.  The actual language says auto supplies and petroleum products, and if you look at the time the ordinance was written, there was really only one primary place where people bought retail auto parts, such as windshield wipers, brake pads, and those types of things, and that was at the neighborhood service station.  When one reads the ordinance with an eye towards the approximate time frame when the ordinance was written, you have a use that doesn't exist in today's market, which are petroleum sales and retail auto parts.  The second reason is an automotive retailer approached City staff about locating at the north out-parcel of Tower Plaza, which is currently zoned C-1.  


Mr. Wingerson said knowing some of the history of that project, he immediately said not a good idea; that's not going to happen; papers should not be filed to see if it is possible.  Mr. Wingerson stated that weekend he looked at it, and what's approved on the plan is a Sonic style drive-through.  Mr. Wingerson said he drove into the cul-de-sac and looked and thought if he lived there would he rather be next to a Sonic style drive-through or would he rather see the back of a retail building.  Mr. Wingerson said he could not answer that question, so he asked a couple of the people who live in that neighborhood.  What they have told him is that they would prefer to look at the back of a retail building, but really do not want the zoning to change in Tower Plaza.  The application was filed late last week for the retail auto parts store in Tower Plaza, and he has not yet had a chance to look at that.  Ultimately what this does is move auto retail parts sales from C-2 to C-1.  The Planning Commission recommends approval of the text amendment with a couple of changes.  In the C-1 classification, the Planning Commission suggested adding language that specifically excludes wholesale automotive supplies and automotive services, so that addition is in the proposed ordinance.  In the C-1 classification, there was discussion about whether selling a case of oil at an auto parts store is the same as changing oil, so the word dispensed was added in front of petroleum products, so it reads automotive supplies and dispensed petroleum products, meaning they are dispensing oil, fuel, or brake fluid and so forth.  Mr. Wingerson said this is a very brief summary because it is late this evening, but he hopes it helps to frame the issue adequately.


Councilman Wayne Beer said he is generally in agreement with what is being proposed.  He understands there is a big difference in dispensing and sales of, and there is a big difference between bulk versus small container sales.  Councilman Beer said he believes this adequately covers that, and permits a pretty non-intrusive retail sale of product, and does not provide or present an issue of contamination, which oftentimes goes with dispensing of product.  Councilman Beer said he is generally in favor of this issue as it is presented.


Mayor Smith said his problem with this is twofold.  Number one, this was a very controversial project with a lot of neighborhood input.  A lot of that discussion centered around what type of usage was allowed.  Someone even made the comment what's to keep you from changing what's allowed in that center somewhere down the road.  Mayor Smith said he is not going there, so he is one no vote.  Mayor Smith said the second reason is that he does not like changing zoning ordinances in reaction to someone who wants to file an application for a business in our City.  Mayor Smith said a third reason, which is so coincidental, just the other day, he, an adult friend and one of his children were driving down North Oak Trafficway.  They went to Baskin Robbins at 77th and North Oak Trafficway.  When they came out, there were two people in the parking lot of the auto parts store across the street working on their cars.  One car was up on jacks; the other had the hood up.  Mayor Smith said they   drove down the street to the auto parts store at Gladstone Plaza.  There was one person changing his oil in the parking lot of the auto parts store at Gladstone Plaza.  They went further down North Oak Trafficway, and there was a person working on his car in the parking lot of the auto parts store.  This is not the kind of thing we told the folks would happen at Tower Plaza.


Councilman Beer said he would hope those types of activities would be prohibited but the problem is how are they prohibited.


Mayor Smith asked how is this prohibited?  These people had broken down cars, not too pretty to look at, and they made it somehow to the auto parts store, bought the auto parts, and worked on their vehicles in the parking lot.  Mayor Smith said we went over and over with the neighbors of Tower Plaza the types of businesses that would be allowed in the shopping center right, wrong, or indifferent, that is what we told them. 


Councilman Beer said one of the issues that was brought forward during that process was the concept of four sided architecture, and he does not believe that was a condition of the project.  Whatever would happen to be built there, even if this ordinance fails, is going to have to be like the rest of the project four-sided architecture, because these people have to look at the backside of those buildings.  This was a big deal to them, and it still needs to be.  Councilman Beer said to Mayor Smith that he sees his concern about reacting to a project, and he is looking at this a little bit differently now because of that.  Even if this ordinance were to become enacted, that's an issue, no matter what goes in there.  If this ordinance does not become enacted, any project that gets set on that property is going to have to be assured that it becomes a four-sided architecture project.


Councilmember Suter asked if there was public representation at the Planning Commission hearing on this issue.


Assistant City Manager Wingerson said he did not believe anyone spoke, beside himself, at the Planning Commission hearing.


Councilmember Carol Suter said given the amount of citizen involvement around this project in the first place, that would be surprising if there were any concerns whatsoever from those folks about reneging on the deal.  Councilmember Suter said she would like to think that even the public can sometimes change their mind and realize that the thing that they approved in the first place may not be as good as the new thing that has just come along.  As Mr. Wingerson said, better than a Sonic, she would rather see something else.


Mayor Smith asked if this is better than a Sonic for those one or two homes behind it maybe.  Is it better than a Sonic for the image and the economy of our City maybe it is not.  We have three auto parts stores within 2.5 miles on North Oak Trafficway is this the next Pay Day Loan or the next pawnshop?  The whole point of being in a C-2 zoning is that they had to be in an area that the City felt was a little more comfortable than C-1, but not quite C-3, but is it better for the overall image of the community to have an auto parts store sitting there than to have a going concern with a Sonic, with people coming and going, and it's a destination?  Mayor Smith said he does not know if it is better.  It might be better for the person living behind it, but that might be the exception.  Mayor Smith said being the point person on that project, as Mr. Wingerson can attest he still is to this day, he cannot support this.  There was too much discussion as to what was and wasn't allowed for them to find out that we changed the zoning classification for a certain type of business so it could go in there.


Councilmember Suter said the public was noticed that the City was seeking a change.


Assistant City Manager Wingerson said he would like to clarify that in a text amendment, the only public notice is the published notice, so there is not specific neighborhood notification.


Councilmember Suter replied that is the reason the public was not there.


Mayor Smith said if we are willing to continue this Public Hearing, and notice even the closest thirty or forty homeowners and see if they have any concerns, that would be one thing.  Mayor Smith explained to Councilmember Suter that this was a tough project, and we, as Council members, gave those people our word that a lot of things were going to happen like we said they were.  Mayor Smith said he cannot, in good conscience condone changing something like that in mid-stream.  He looked too many people in the eye and told them that was the way it is and that is what was going to be allowed, and nothing else was allowed. 


Councilmember Suter said her position on this is different now, realizing that the neighbors did not have notice.  If the neighbors had notice, and were able to participate or not participate at the Planning Commission, that would weigh heavily in her opinion on whether to go with this or not.  Councilmember Suter said she agrees that perhaps the ideal way to resolve it is to continue this Public Hearing and allow for public input.


Mayor Smith agreed, and said recognizing that would possibly raise the mistrust level.  They could say here we go again, and we knew it was coming, and we could say yes, you are right, but we are trying to get your feedback on it.


Councilmember Suter agreed and said given the situation around economic development and the City's interest in maximizing every opportunity, it is only fair to let those folks know that we are interested in new business opportunities in the community where it works, and where our rules don't allow it, we want community input into whether that meets with their expectations about that site.


Councilman Carol Rudi said it seems to her it almost needs to be tied with an application to make a change, because we would be changing all C-1 zoning.  We are not just changing that one place.  If we give notice to the 30 or 40 people in this area, why are we not giving notice to the 30, 40 or 50 people at 56th Street or North Oak Trafficway or 72nd Street.  Councilman Rudi said she knows we posted it and did our legal duty, but if we give preference to one group over another group by giving special notice, that is not right, especially if we are talking about ordinance changes.  Councilman Rudi said her problem with this is the other issue the Planning Commission brought up in that there is really no way to regulate what happens in the parking lot.  Councilman Rudi said she gets tired of running over cans of oil in the Wal-Mart parking lot that someone left because they did not need a whole can of oil when they put it into their cars.  This is a trash issue that perhaps the neighbors have not considered, because those trash cans possibly will go into their yards, and they won't like that.  Councilman Rudi said when this was first discussed at the Planning Commission, it sounded like a good idea, but the more she thinks about what happens in the parking lots around these types of facilities, she is not so certain it is a good idea.


Mr. Wingerson asked if City Council members should decide to hold a public hearing for the neighborhood, he would suggest that this be remanded back to the Planning Commission and allow them to hold the hearings.


There were no comments from the audience.


Mayor Smith closed the public hearing.


Item 15. on the Agenda.           FIRST READING BILL 07-41, amending Section 7.135.010, and 7.140.010 of the Gladstone City Code relating to C-1 and C-2 Zoning Districts within the City of Gladstone.


Councilman Wayne Beer moved to place Bill 07-41 on First Reading.  Councilman Carol Rudi seconded. 


Councilman Beer said based on everything that has been stated and heard this evening, he will be opposed to this action.


The vote:  All aye Councilmember Carol Suter, Councilman Wayne Beer, Councilman Carol Rudi, and Mayor Les Smith.  (4-0).  The Clerk read the Bill.


Councilman Wayne Beer moved to accept the First Reading of Bill 07-41, Waive the Rule and place the Bill on Second and Final Reading.  Councilman Carol Rudi seconded.  The vote:  All nay Councilmember Carol Suter, Councilman Wayne Beer, Councilman Carol Rudi, and Mayor Les Smith.  (0-4). 


Mayor Smith stated this is a 0-4 vote, and asked City Counselor David Ramsay if further action is necessary.


City Counselor Ramsay replied the Bill is defeated.  It could be brought up again with the Planning Commission.


Item 16. on the Agenda.           OTHER BUSINESS.


There was no other business.


Item 17. on the Agenda.           QUESTIONS FROM THE NEWS MEDIA.


There were no questions from the News Media.


Item 18. on the Agenda.           ADJOURNMENT.


There being no further business to come before the December 10, 2007, Gladstone Regular City Council Meeting, Mayor Les Smith adjourned the regular meeting.  



Respectfully submitted:




Cathy Swenson, City Clerk

                                                                                       Approved as submitted:  ___


                                                                                Approved as corrected/amended: ___




                                                                                              Mayor Les Smith