February 7, 2005
Item 1 on the Agenda: Meeting called to order – Roll Call.
Present: Council & Staff Present:
Ms. Newsom Scott Wingerson, Assist. City Manager
Ms. Alexander David Ramsay, City Counselor
Ms. Lowe Kreg Cox, GIS Manager
Mr. Boor Mayor Pro-Tem Carol Rudi
Item 2 on the Agenda: Pledge of Allegiance.
Chairman Hill led the group in reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.
Item 3 on the Agenda: Approval of January 18, 2005 Minutes.
Motion by Ms. Newsom, second by Ms. Alexander to approve the January 18, 2005 minutes as submitted. The minutes were approved as submitted.
Item 4 on the Agenda: Communications from the Audience.
Item 5 on the Agenda: PUBLIC HEARING: of a Rezoning and Preliminary Plat, “The Preserve at Carriage Hill Estates.” Applicant/Owner: JA Peterson Enterprises, Inc. (#1239)
Chairman Hill explained the public hearing process and proceeded to ask Mr. Wingerson for the staff report.
Mr. Wingerson said that this application is for a rezoning and preliminary plat, rather than for a final plat, which was what the agenda and staff report stated. He introduced Kreg Cox, GIS Manager for the City and asked him to provide the background information for the request.
Mr. Cox reported that the applicant is requesting a zoning change from R-3 to R-1 and a preliminary plat approval. The project is generally described as south of NE 72nd Street and adjacent to Antioch Road on the east side. The surrounding land uses are: North, R-1; South, undeveloped R-1; East, undeveloped KCMO; and West, mostly multi-family. Mr. Cox referred to a PowerPoint presentation and described the aerial photograph. The parcel is heavily wooded and was zoned R-3 in 1966. The land area encompasses 36.84 acres. The plat designates 44 building lots, which are estate-sized. A traffic circle intersection is used at the entrance of the subdivision as a traffic-calming device. The development uses extensive common areas with natural treatment, stormwater features and facilities and provides a walking trail.
Mr. Cox pointed out that there is a lot along Antioch Road towards the center of the development that is not part of this plat. There is also a notch at the southwest corner for the water tower and the residence to the south. This development includes three street connections. The main entrance off Antioch will line up with the existing NE 68th Terrace. The proposed street is a divided roadway that will meet collector standards. The development connects with a residential standard street, N. Norton, to the north. A residential street to the south will be built for future connection to a development to the south. The site has a natural valley that drains to the north and connects to Stonebrooke Estates. Water run-off has been addressed through natural areas throughout the central portion including a pond, detention area and wetland area. Mr. Cox read through the recommended conditions, numbered 1-10.
Mr. Wingerson added two things to Mr. Cox’s presentation. In conversation with the development team this afternoon the request was made to allow an escrow for improvements to Antioch Road, which would be the curb, gutter and sidewalk on the east side of Antioch. Staff has no objections to either the actual construction of that improvement or the escrow of the improvement. Mr. Wingerson added that staff is recommending approval of the rezoning as well as the preliminary plat.
Chairman Hill asked how the water tower will be screened.
Mr. Wingerson said that staff will work with the Peterson Company to possibly screen the base of the tower with a 10’ fence.
Chairman Hill asked if there was someone present on behalf of the applicant.
Brian McMillan, a land planner for John F. Lutjen & Associates, 8350 N. St. Claire Avenue, Kansas City, Missouri, 64151 addressed the Commission. Mr. McMillan stated that the piece of ground being presented is a beautiful, rugged, treed piece of ground. What they have done is lay the road upon the ridge line and be as non-evasive to the ground as possible. Most of the lots are 105’ wide and 150’ deep. Mr. McMillan referred to his drawing and showed the access points into/out of the subdivision. He explained that one thing they have done with the entry is to create a grand entrance with a round-about and landscaping which will create interest towards the subdivision and away from the water tower.
Mr. McMillan said that the development is proposing two detention basins, a wet one and a dry one. Currently natural drainage is happening on the site and there is nothing restraining the run-off as it leaves the property. The current run-off is 111 cubic feet per second. What he intends to do is reduce that number to 29 cubic feet per second using the two basins. Mr. McMillan explained that what happens when a storm cell moves across the City is that it dumps a large amount of rain at one time which causes sewer systems, creeks, and streets fill up with water. The basins being created will actually hold the water until the storm cell moves on through the City, then the basins will slowly begin to release it. The current residents of Stonebrooke Estates will be impacted less with the new development that with the current existing conditions. The APWA recommends a 1.8 cfs (cubic feet per second) release rate. Currently the property has a 4.58 cfs. After the new detention basins it will be down to a 1.17 cfs, which is well below the recommended 1.8. These figures are based on a 100-year flood event.
Mr. McMillan said that during construction the contractors will access the site off Antioch Road. The developer intends to barricade off access to Stonebrooke Estates during the construction process. Eventually when those streets are paved they will become public right-of-way.
Various unidentified members of the audience began to speak and Chairman Hill asked that they hold their comments until after the applicant made his presentation.
Ms. Newsom asked how the stormwater will be controlled on the outside of the “U-shaped” portion of the development.
Mr. McMillan answered that they have overcompensated for the drainage in the center of the development as they cannot contain all the excess water leaving the site. Whatever was leaving the site on the outside of the development will slightly increase because of the roofs, but not significantly. There is still a lot of buffer area there.
Ms. Newsom asked what would be done to the south of the development.
Mr. McMillan replied that it would be the same scenario.
Ms. Abbott asked how many gallons there are in a cubic foot.
Mr. McMillan said he is not sure. They do not govern it in gallons; it’s governed by velocity.
Ms. Abbott asked how he would know how many gallons of water the detention basin is going to hold if he doesn’t know how many gallons there are in a cubic foot.
Mr. McMillan said that it’s actually calculated in acre-feet…it’s not like gallons of milk in the market….
Ms. Abbot said that no, it’s twenty-seven (27) gallons to an acre; one acre- one inch of water.
Mr. McMillan said that he does know about the hydrology, but he doesn’t have an answer in regards to gallons.
Ms. Abbott asked Mr. McMillan if he has any idea how many gallons of water the detention basin will hold.
Mr. McMillan said that he does not; he knows the release rate.
Ms. Abbott asked what difference it makes how many cubic feet there are there if he doesn’t know how many gallons.
Mr. McMillan said that he is a planner, not an engineer and he did not do the hydrology study. He did design the project and he does work hand-and-glove with the engineers that do those stormwater calculations. He knows the basins are designed properly, but that’s not his area of expertise. A stormwater study was submitted to the City with the application.
Ms. Abbott said she would appreciate knowing how many gallons the basin will hold.
Mr. McMillan said he will find that out as soon as he gets back to the office.
Mr. Whitton asked if the water that is not being addressed on the east side is going to flow directly to the north towards the homes of Stonebrooke Estates.
Mr. McMillan said that yes, it will; however, it will not flow at a higher capacity than what is occurring now.
Mr. Whitton said he wants to know what Mr. McMillan is going to do with the water that will flow to the north from the east side of the property. He said that is going to have to be addressed before he could ever vote for something like this.
Mr. Revenaugh said that he thought what Mr. McMillan was saying is that there is a normal flow rate of water coming off the ridge as it stands right now- undeveloped. When the development is complete, the water that would naturally flow to the inside is going to be caught by the water basins. The water that will go to the outside of the ridge is not going to be appreciably at a higher rate than what it is currently. Therefore, even if it does increase the flow a little bit, it’s still within City standards.
Mr. McMillan said that was correct and he’s sorry he didn’t explain that better.
Mr. Whitton asked if the houses on the outside of the ridge are at the same slope as the ones on the inside.
Mr. McMillan said that he is suggesting is that what falls on the concrete will be caught in the storm drainage system. What falls in the lawn is not that different that what is falling there now. The lay of the land will remain as it is along with a lot of open space.
Ms. Abbott said that if she remembers correctly on about a 1,400 sf house, on a one-inch rain you get about 1,400 gallons of water. If half of it went to the retention basin side and the other half went to the east side you would have that much more water, not to mention if they have decks, patios and driveways out there. There is going to be more run-off from what you have with trees and dirt.
Mr. McMillan commented that he does wish he would have brought a hydrologist tonight because he knows that the studies have been done. He assured everyone that it is in conformance and that it is an improvement to the current drainage situation out there.
Ms. Newsom asked if Mr. McMillan could provide that information at the next meeting.
Mr. McMillan said he certainly will.
Mr. Steffens asked if there are going to be any trees left on the lots that are being developed.
Mr. McMillan said that the idea is to be as least obtrusive as possible. He believes that the people that are going to be interested in these lots are going to do so because of the wooded landscape.
Mr. Reynolds said that he would like to make sure that everyone understands what Mr. McMillan explained earlier. Where there is asphalt or concrete on either side of the street…the plan for stormwater retention is for all the water to go to the center of the development. The only water that would not do that is the water that comes off the roof through the guttering into the yard. Therefore, they are not increasing the flow of water from the east of the property. He asked what the topography of the east side of the property is.
Mr. McMillan answered that Mr. Reynolds was correct in what he explained. He also answered that the topography is steep and wooded.
Mr. Reynolds asked what is directly to the east of where the plat ends.
Mr. McMillan answered that is undeveloped Kansas City, Missouri.
Chairman Hill said that he would assume the greenspace would be dedicated to the subdivision and then the homeowners’s association would maintain it.
Mr. McMillan said that is correct.
Chairman Hill asked him if the developer was acceptable of the recommended conditions in the staff report.
Mr. McMillan answered yes.
Chairman Hill opened the public hearing and asked those in favor to come forward, stating their name and address.
Mike Davis, 4108 NE 71st Court addressed the Commission. Mr. Davis said that his only concern he has is the swimming pool and clubhouse down there on 72nd Street. That is a natural drain through there. He asked who is going to be responsible for the pool flooding.
Richard Conn, 4021 NE 71st Court addressed the Commission. Mr. Conn said that he has the storm sewer in his back yard. He said he is all for R-1, versus R-3, obviously. Just the natural flow of water comes into his lawn and there’s a 36-inch storm sewer that goes across the back of his property. His real concern is that he had water up in his yard this past summer when there was 2 and 3” rains because the 36” pipe couldn’t handle it. The water didn’t get near his house, but he’s hopeful that these detention ponds will hold the water. He’s walked the property and as most people know, he’s in banking and construction lending and development, therefore, he’s familiar with some of the problems that Mr. McMillan is facing. Mr. Conn said that the east side of the property will naturally flow east into Kansas City, Missouri. Another issue Mr. Conn said he is concerned about is what is going to be done during construction to retain water.
Mr. Davis asked what sized homes are going to be built in the proposed development.
Mr. McMillan said that he would guess that the lots will probably be selling for around $100,000 and generally the land cost is roughly 20% price of the home, which would mean homes would be $400,000-$500,000.
Lun Winn, representing his parents who live at 6905 N. Antioch, addressed the Commission. Mr. Winn said that his parents are the lone residence along Antioch Road. He wondered why, after the property was staked, was his parent’s lot now shifted. He wondered if someone could come and take a look at that. He said regarding the water drainage, he doesn’t have any problem with water on that site at all.
Mr. McMillan said that the property line wouldn’t have been moved during staking of the ground.
Mr. Wingerson asked Mr. Winn if he could stay after the meeting and he will try to figure it out.
Bob Meyer, 7105 N. Norton Avenue addressed the Commission. Mr. Meyer said that he is in favor of the rezoning, provided that the questions that have been asked here tonight are satisfactorily answered. He also asked how the development’s new drainage system will tie into the present drainage system in Stonebrooke Estates.
Mr. McMillan answered that the basin will be an overland conveance system. That will allow the silt and soil to settle out of the water before it enters the existing pipe.
Mr. Meyer asked if there would be anything on the ridge in the middle of the development that goes north.
Mr. McMillan said water will get caught into street storm sewers and drained back into the basin.
Mr. Meyer asked if he could be assured that they won’t have overflow into their swimming pool.
Mr. McMillan said that he can assure him that they are going to reduce the number of cubic feet of water that is leaving the site and that it is an improvement over the current situation.
Mr. Meyer said that it is his understanding that the City has codes that the development has to conform to and asked Mr. McMillan if he has already been through that process.
Mr. McMillan said that a stormwater study has been done.
Mr. Conn asked if there are any storm sewers in this subdivision because he doesn’t see any on the plans.
Mr. McMillan answered yes, but that information is not generally on a preliminary plat.
Mr. Wingerson said that Mr. McMillan will bring the engineer to the next meeting and after the site visit things should be more clear. The strategy is to reduce the volume of water at a specific time that goes through the basin.
Chairman Hill asked for anyone in opposition to please come forward.
John Pace, 4028 NE 71st Court addressed the Commission. Mr. Pace said that Mr. McMillan needs to be there during a 2” or 3” rain to see that water come down the hill because he doesn’t really think it’s being addressed. He asked where the water is going when it leaves the storm basins. Into their main?
Mr. McMillan answered yes.
Mr. Pace asked if their main will handle it.
Mr. McMillan said yes.
Mr. Pace remarked that he can’t get anything from Mr. McMillan’s answers, so he’ll wait for the engineers. The other issue he is concerned with is how they are going to keep N. Norton from becoming like N. Bales. The way he sees it you have one way in there off Antioch. He asked what is proposed along N. Norton to slow the traffic down. He sees nothing. People will come from I-435 and N. Brighton and take the “hopshot” onto N. Norton. It is disaster for Stonebrooke Estates.
Mr. McMillan said that it is good city planning to have neighborhoods connect. He asked Mr. Wingerson if Antioch is planned to be a collector.
Mr. Wingerson answered that it is an arterial roadway.
Mr. McMillan said that Antioch will eventually become four lanes and that commuters don’t generally go through neighbors.
Chairman Hill asked if anyone else would like to speak in opposition. Hearing no response he asked Mr. Wingerson to address some of the questions.
Mr. Wingerson said that it appears the primary issue is stormwater control. As Mr. McMillan has stated, he will make sure that an engineer is able to speak at the next meeting directly about the engineering principles. Mr. McMillan will also make sure that some stormwater drawings are available as requested. The Antioch Road stormwater generally will flow to the south of the development north then go across the road and into the lake at Twin Lakes. That’s the way it works now and no changes are proposed. To the east is natural water flow that flows north and then converges near NE 72nd Street. What the City requires is that the detention area in the middle is, in effect, oversized to ensure that when all the areas converge that the water can pass underneath NE 72nd Street. In summary, Mr. Wingerson explained, the engineering staff and the applicant’s engineer have done a good job in making the current situation better. The challenge now is to provide that information to the Planning Commission and the residents of Stonebrooke Estates.
Mr. Wingerson said that one of staff’s recommended conditions is #10, “During development construction a physical barrier shall be provided on N. Norton at the intersection of Stonebrooke Estates. Upon City acceptance of public streets, temporary signs shall be installed prohibiting construction traffic through Stonebrooke Estates and requiring ingress/egress from N. Antioch Road.”
Mr. Wingerson continued by speaking about traffic control. What staff tried to do was institute two planning concepts. The first is the round-about east of Antioch Road, which staff is using as a traffic calming device. Should the property to the south develop, he would envision that future staff would require additional traffic calming devices in that development so it doesn’t become a raceway. Antioch Road is an arterial roadway that has the ability to carry a much higher volume of traffic that what is currently using it. It was a state highway and was constructed to state highway standards. Staff has asked the developer to do a traffic study to see if there is a need for deceleration lanes into the subdivision.
As far as pool liability, Mr. Wingerson said that City staff’s goal is to ensure that the water leaving the site is less than it is now. Therefore, if the pool doesn’t flood now, it should flood less after this development.
Mr. Davis asked if a round-about could be placed at the entrance into Stonebrooke Estates.
Mr. McMillan said that he does not feel that it will be used as a shortcut.
Mr. Pace said that will become a shortcut and a fast-lane to NE 72nd Street to N. Brighton. There are kids; they have a nice residential area and he doesn’t want it to become a N. Bales.
Chairman Hill asked if Mr. Wingerson could research Kansas City’s Shoal Creek Parkway Plan because it may have some impact as to whether or not this area might be used as a shortcut.
Chairman Hill closed the public hearing.
The Commission agreed to do a site visit on Saturday, February 12, 2005 at 10:00 am. They will meet at the south end of N. Norton.
Chairman Hill called for a 5- minute break.
Item 6 on the Agenda: FINAL PLAT: Consideration of a Final Plat, Gladstone Plaza, 2nd Plat. Applicant: GS/SJ Properties, LLC. Owner: Clay County Realty. (#1244)
Chairman Hill asked Mr. Wingerson for the staff report.
Mr. Wingerson reported that this request is very similar to a request the Commission heard a few weeks ago. This request plats the Gladstone portion of Gladstone Plaza, creating an out-parcel for Rod’s Hallmark. The Plaza is currently described with a metes and bounds legal description. The only recommended condition is that a document be provided securing ingress and egress rights for staff review prior to the plat being released for recording. Mr. Wingerson said this plat will clean up a lot of issues and create a clean legal description. He thanked Mr. Sweeney and Mr. Henning for their cooperation in making it happen. Staff’s recommendation is approval.
Ms. Alexander said that she is assuming that this is being done to set Rod’s Hallmark and the bank apart from the shopping center.
Mr. Wingerson said that the plat from the last meeting was for Bank Midwest and was done to separate it from the rest of the shopping center. This plat does the same thing for Rod’s Hallmark.
MOTION: By Ms. Newsom, second by Mr. Whitton to approve the Final Plat, Gladstone Plaza, 2nd Plat subject to staff’s recommended condition.
Vote: Ms. Newsom Yes
Ms. Alexander Yes
Ms. Lowe Yes
Mr. Reynolds Yes
Mr. Stanley Yes
Mr. Shevling Yes
Mr. Whitton Yes
Mr. Revenaugh Yes
Ms. Abbott Yes
Mr. Steffens Yes
Chairman Hill Yes
Vote: Yes-12, No- 0
Chairman Hill announced that this application would move forward to the City Council on Monday, February 14, 2005.
Item 7 on the Agenda: Other Business
There was no other business.
Item 8 on the Agenda: Communications from the City Council and the City Staff.
Mr. Wingerson said that the Commissioners had some follow-up information on 64th & N. Prospect at their places this evening. Additional information will be provided in their next packets.
He also commented that Ms. Abbott had raised some issues at the last meeting that he would like to address. One was trash at Northland Auto Sales. He spoke with Mr. Myers and he is policing the area better. Mr. Wingerson said he spoke with him today because there is a little bit of trash at the bottom of the wall and Mr. Myers said he will continue to work on it. Another issue was the trees along the north line of Mr. Scharhag’s property. Those trees were actually trimmed by the power company in restoring power from the tornado. Mr. Wingerson spoke with the power company. They are reviewing their records and will get back with him at a future date. It appears to be their responsibility at this point.
Mr. Wingerson invited everyone to the Boards and Commissions Banquet on February 25, 2005. He reminded everyone to RSVP tonight with Becky if they can.
Item 9 on the Agenda: Communications from the Planning Commission Members.
Ms. Abbott said that the trees are north of Englewood on Broadway, not on the north side of the property. It’s all the way up Broadway and the power department didn’t do that. On the north side up by Bell’s house, yes, they trimmed the trees and they put in the power lines that were blown down, but the trees they are complaining about are east of Broadway, north of Englewood.
Ms. Newsom reminded and encouraged everyone to vote tomorrow. There will be a watch party tomorrow at Tommy’s Restaurant starting at 7:00 pm and everyone is invited to attend.
Ms. Alexander encouraged everyone to vote favorably tomorrow and as a result maybe we can get at least two more codes inspectors so Scott has better back-up.
Chairman Hill announced the appointments to the Capital Improvements Committee: Mr. Steffans and Mr. Revenaugh. He also encouraged everyone to vote.
Item 10 on the Agenda: Adjournment.
Chairman Hill adjourned the meeting at 9:00 P.M.
______________________________________ Approved as submitted _____
Becky Jarrett, Recording Secretary
______________________________________ Approved as corrected _____
Brian Hill, Chairman